VMware HA Vs Microsoft Cluster Server: we are at the inflection point

The philosophy of clustering vs HA

Anonymous — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:34:09 GMT

IBM's Massimo Re Ferre' with another long thought-piece on the philosophical differences between traditional custering (application- and OS-dependent, complicated) with approaches like VI3's High Availability (HA) (treats workload as a virtual appliance,

re: VMware HA Vs Microsoft Cluster Server: we are at the inflection point

mikelaverick — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:47:30 GMT

Very interesting piece. Right now there does seem to be a fork-in-the-road as the requirements for MSCS and VMware HA conflict with each other. Some people often think a combination of both will allow for the offsetting of the pros/cons of each approach.

What do you week of continious HA from VMware as demo'd at last years VMworld 2007? Is that killer of conventional clustering?

One thing I would say is that conventional clustering is only helpful for stateless applications. The nice thing about HA is that really doesn't care what the TCP state is of the application

re: VMware HA Vs Microsoft Cluster Server: we are at the inflection point

Massimo — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:17:06 GMT

Mike,

in my opinion the combination of both would only (realistically) make the problems / limitations exponentially grow... I personally think that in the long run the only viable solution is to get rid of the complexity within the Guest and move everything into the virtual infrastructure (with the possibility to load a small set of agents within the Guest to potentially provide application awareness etc etc - but this need to be a small/simple logic for it to be effective).

I see Continuous HA as "just" an additional level of high availability you can achieve using the strategy above. Something that you cannot practically achieve trying to implement the same thing within a multi-purpose OS such as Windows / Linux. It's just not practical.

Thanks for the comments.

Massimo.

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re: VMware HA Vs Microsoft Cluster Server: we are at the inflection point

clikdude — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:47:59 GMT

Massimo,

First off, you have a thorough grasp of the subject matter, and working in the industry with a similar focus on dynamic infrastructures utilizing virtualization solutions, I must say that your insights are spot on.

As I read this post, one thing I could not distinguish however, was the fact that both technologies work in such different fashions today, that it usually is not an either/or decision. For example, an MS SQL Server Cluster on top of MSCS, architected correctly, has a small latency, usually nominal to dependent applications, as one node takes over transaction processing for the other.

With infrastructure level redundancy solutions like VMware HA, as an example, the time necessary to "restart" the Guest OS and all dependent applications could take upwards of 30 - 60 seconds, usually a sufficient amount of time to put dependent applications in distress, and for external and internal users to see that the application "is down". In this scenario, the additional risk exists that transactions are lost (in the case of SQL or Exchange), or worse, one of the databases suffered irreparable corruption, further increasing the risk of missing the intended RTO.

So, I believe that there is the occasion for either solution, but where RTO is small for a particular application/service as defined by IT and the stakeholders, and a virtual infrastructure is being used that supports Guest OS clustering (i.e. ESX 3.5 U1), then the underlying HA solution cannot replace the need for Application/OS clustering, such as MSCS.

What are your thoughts?

- clikdude

re: VMware HA Vs Microsoft Cluster Server: we are at the inflection point

Massimo — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:37:55 GMT

Clikdude,

Thanks for the comments.

This post actually fired up a number of other (similar) discussions like this for example: http://blog.scottlowe.org/2008/04/04/virtualization-short-take-5/

I am not sure I agree when you say that in a MSCS environment end-users might not even notice the outage. Unless this has changed drastically over the last few months it was my understanding that any “work in progress” (i.e. a SQL transaction for example) on the active node would be lost while failing over to the companion node and a recovery procedure should occur (this would not be very different than what would happen on a SQL standalone db machine that looses power and gets restarted or what would happen in a VMware HA cluster when the VM is restarted on the other node). Sure in a MSCS scenario you don’t need to restart the OS while in a VMware HA scenario you have to (if 20 additional seconds of downtime matter to you this is something one should keep note of). BTW Depending how much the db recovery time is 20 seconds might be a great part of the downtime or peanuts.

In some sense I agree that VMware HA is architecturally different than MSCS for what it does and how it does it. Sure VMware HA is only good to recover from hardware failures while MSCS has more control over the service status (at least this is what the technologies provide today).

On the other hand a FIAT is architecturally very different compared to a Ferrari. But if you, like me, have to drive 12 Km to get to the office at 15Km/hour average speed due to traffic jam… having a Ferrari or a Fiat won’t make too much of a difference (if we are just concentrating on how to get to the office asap).

Bottom line is that the vast majority of the customers I met that were using MSCS were doing that because 1) they wanted to protect the service from a mere hardware failure and 2) MSCS (and the like) was the only viable architecture that allowed that. Obviously if you care about the best RTO ever (measured in the range of seconds) and more control/tuning over specific application status… than you should continue to use MSCS (and the like). If you care more about simplifying drastically your infrastructure and being protected from hardware failures than VMware HA (and the like) is, in my opinion, the best approach.

Thanks.

Massimo.

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re: VMware HA Vs Microsoft Cluster Server: we are at the inflection point

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